Waitakere- photo by Mae Lee Sun

On The Road To Tauranga- photo by Mae Lee Sun

Auckland, New Zealand

By Mae Lee Sun

Sunset at Piha beach, New Zealand- photo by Mae Lee Sun

“Find joy in doing what is good.” – H.H. Dalai Lama

Although Madyamika is often divided into various schools which were founded by a number of teachers, it is Nagarjuna who set forth a systematic method called ‘madyamika’ or middle way, to refer to things as they really are- avoiding falling into the extremes of existence and non-existence.  Buddhist scholar Paul Williams asserts that the Madyamikas (those who subscribe to this methodology) do not put forth the inherent existence of anything and they set out to refute the reasoning of those who believe there is.  However, it is not to infer that Madyamikas are nihilistic.  The methodology is used to understand emptiness, which allows one to cut through emotional obscurations of ego clinging and the conceptualizing activity of mind that creates dualism.

In Shantideva’s Bodhycharavatara, an understanding of the notion of emptiness is necessary for one to take and keep the bodhisattva vows.  Otherwise, we’d believe the “I” that we call ourselves is real inside of us and exists separately from everything else and subject to being affected by the aggregates (skandhas).  If that were true, we would not act from a place of purified heart.  The source of suffering and confusion will continue without being able to discriminate between the relative and the absolute (gross and subtle) nor comprehend dependent co-arising.

New Zealand Fern frond, a symbol of new life and growth- photo by Mae Lee Sun

Believing in existence simply because we experience certain emotions, feelings, sensations and relationship with the world of form never gets us beyond conceptual mind- the cause of our suffering, because we grasp onto the five skandhas as real.  Consequently, if we do not practice and understand this technique offered by Madyamika, we can easily fall into wrong view, which is nihilism, not bodhicitta.  When there is no distinction from self and other phenomenon, one is able to open fully to situations of suffering.  So what then is suffering if phenomena are empty?

If we hold the view of non-existence, as if nothing is there at all, we ignore the fact that without form, there would be no emptiness and thus continue to miss the point.  Whether or not phenomena exist and are empty, suffering still occurs and the bodhisattva aspires to work toward alleviating it on the relative level because they understand the absolute nature of it and see that it can also change on that level.  Once one commits to the bodhisattva path however, one must believe that it is a practice not to be taken lightly.  The way of the bodhisattva is a process of knowing you will more than likely fail, yet you continue on with an attitude of openness, courage and compassion despite the hopelessness of situations.  The possibilities of liberation from suffering lie in the emptiness of them because you have trained in the skills enabling you to experience impermanence, no-self and even liberating the antidote as Chogyam Trunpa Rinpoche said.

Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to save them

Delusions are inexhaustible, I vow to put an end to them

Dharma gates are boundless, I vow to master them

The Buddha Way is unsurpassable, I vow to attain it

Heart in Action- photo by Mae Lee Sun

With this virtuous understanding one is ready – or not- to embark on the bodhisattva path.  Our tendencies as conditioned beings is to move full steam ahead, full of emotion and self centered agendas, so efforts do need to be made to arouse, protect, maintain and intensify bodhicitta toward direct realization of emptiness.  If we do not pay attention to ego patterns, which can actually be quite valuable, and work with them through study, contemplations and meditation, obstacles arising out of ego will prevent us from understanding the teachings. Sensei Jan Chozen Bays cautioned that the worst thing that could happen is that we might actually become intoxicated with ourselves and how the world should be which she asserts is far worse than consuming alcohol or drugs. Examples of this include fixating on what makes sense to us and rejecting the rest, clinging to what we have discovered and finding others to confirm this without inquiring further, mistaking it for direct experience.

The bodhisattva vow itself is about the quality of awakened heart which is taking a great leap of faith in seeing the interconnectedness between ourselves and all other beings, etc. and transforming the path from the solution to the willingness to embrace the chaos (Hinayana to Mahayana).  We begin to realize in entering the Mahayana via taking the Bodhisattva vows, that what other choice do we have but to rely on ourselves and to ripen our practice so it becomes strong?  As we grasp this sense of emptiness so to speak, all possibilities are available for us to generate fearlessness and employ skillful means to situations of suffering.

Training our mind, we can change our way of seeing and our behavior resulting in less harm.  This is the first of the three disciplines in training the bodhisattva.  The second aspect of the path is adopting virtuous actions and the third is working for the benefit of beings, thus reaching Buddhahood- although the emphasis is not on fruition.  Within the scope of these are more exact instructions or paramitas of action (generosity, discipline, patience, exertion, meditation and prajna) that point to particular responses that work in service to a situation in a direct way that is not based in ego.

Aitken Roshi protesting the war in Iraq on a street corner in Hawaii- photo provided by Palolo Zen Center, Oahu

May bodhichitta, precious and sublime,

Arise where it has not yet come to be;

And where it has arisen may it never fail

But grown and flourish ever more

- Nagarjuna

The Bodhicharyavatara is divided similarly, communicating not only the necessity and positive virtue of bodhicitta but includes the horrifying reality of suffering in general and the courage it takes to stay with it despite our own predicament.  The challenge I have consistently faced is knowing how to prevent the attitude of bodhicitta from becoming dissipated as well as fully understanding what the point is in continually putting myself in situations of suffering, i.e. there’s endless work to do in the world when it comes to addressing environmental devastation, animal welfare and human rights issues, etc.  The Buddha asserted that every being wants to be free from suffering and pain, doesn’t want to live a life of confusion and simultaneously has the potential to become enlightened without exception.  If our true mind is bodhicitta, we are capable of helping other beings beside ourselves through compassionate action and prajna once bodhicitta dawns in our mind.  The key is knowing how to work with this as Path even if it is inconvenient and our heart is bruised.

As when a flash of lightening rends the night,

And in its glare shows all the dark black clouds had hid,

Likewise rarely, through the Buddha’s power,

Virtuous thoughts rise, brief and transient, in the world.

Perhaps my expectation is that the struggle will disappear.  If it does not, what resolve must I come to in order to protect and maintain bodhicitta?  In the ‘Awareness’ chapter, Shantideva speaks to one’s decision to take the vows and then considers retraction after having done so.  He says it quite harmful because of the possible karmic fall to lower states for the person taking the vow and the place it leaves those who were to be the recipients of the bodhisattvas work.   We need to be appreciative as well, of the fact that as humans, we are in the unique position to free beings from other realms.  Will we not regret this if we do not do this while we have the chance?  It is our own minds that create discord and separation.  We must be able to recognize this as such and come to realize the lack of substantiality to our fear and not give in to this empty affliction.

Fearless- photo by Mae Lee Sun

In one way or another, much of my life has been spent working with defiled emotions.  Sometimes, they have been indulged- especially in the realm of activism.  As a matter of course, it rarely works for the benefit of others and can often make existing problems worse.  In the sixth chapter of the Bodhicharyavatara, Patience is most important in staying on the path.  The doubt in itself then is not necessarily an obstacle, nor is the questions and feelings.  Shantideva points to anger that can arise out of the doubt as something that requires our attention and patience.  As important as this paramita is to the path, it has personally been the most challenging for me- especially in situations that are emotionally charged like witnessing another person or an animal or child being harmed.

Pain, humiliation, insults or rebukes-

We do not want them

Either for those whom we love or ourselves.

For those we do not like, it’s quite the opposite!

Acting reflexively to situations with anger creates obstacles since we are short on prajna and upaya.  The workability comes out of the patience generated through sitting when we see that there is no ‘other’ to blame.  ‘Driving all blames into one’ as Chogyam Trungpa said allows for the space in which we can transform the suffering and can see that what is happening is destructive to everyone.  A direct way to know this through the practice of tonglen- the practice of sending and taking.   Tonglen has helped me to cut klesa activity and develop patience because the exchange of sending and taking digs up our own sensitivity to suffering.  It points out our own ‘self’ centeredness and attachment.

Lobsang Gyatso asserts that grasping to self is one of the most obscuring factors that prevent the attainment of wisdom.  To safeguard against this is to vigilantly and heroically persevere in developing qualities of “other cherishing” mind, lifetime after lifetime so we eventually engage spontaneously in altruistic action.  Shantideva says, “There is nothing which familiarity does not make easier.”  As frightened as we may be in taking on all of this responsibility, it is crucial that we remain committed or we will continue wandering in samsara in ignorance and helping no one, not even ourselves.  This is not an easy task considering the fact that we have been conditioned for lifetimes to react compulsively, aggressively and contrary to compassion.  In the Greater Stages of the Path, Je Tsongkhapa says:

Attachment to self has engendered self-centeredness, and it is this, which has in a beginningless process of cyclic existence up to the present day created all forms of everything undesirable.

If this is all we know and share, it is no wonder we are unable to overcome the problems we face and discount both others and ourselves by trying to safeguard this logic.  To mention emptiness, we somehow think we won’t exist and can fall into despondency and nihilism, carried away by attacks of the skandhas.  To understand it, we cannot merely conceptualize, we must do as Thich Nhat Hanh suggests, which is:

“Anyone who would like to arrive at that kind of emancipation will have to look deeply in order to penetrate the true nature of emptiness.”

Absolutely Empty- photo by Mae Lee Sun

Penetrating phenomenal reality will free us from pain since we recognize its illusory nature.  Form is empty of a single independent point of origination and, emptiness is in essence, the containment of everything, the interbeing of entire existence.  Without it, how could anything exist and not exist as is expounded in the Prajnaparamita Sutra?  If we make distinctions between good and bad elements, this and that, we stay subject to samsara, birth, old age, sickness and death and fail to see the transformative quality of the Dharma and our teachers.  Reciting the Heart Sutra with the intent of a bodhisattva, the object of “I” cannot maintain itself as separate or intrinsically existent.  Therefore, we must not be disenchanted when confusion arises on the path so these realizations can come and bodhicitta can be realized.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama states in his book Flash of Lightning, that one must practice according to individual capacity.  If we are mindful of those moments of not acting in accord with the highest good, and we approach endeavoring towards awakening with joy, then we will not be disheartened. According to Chogyam Trungpa, this sense of cheerfulness has a lot of guts:

“You maintain a sense of cheerfulness because you are on the path; you are actually doing something about yourself.  While most sentient beings have no idea what should be done with themselves, at least you have some lead on it, which is fantastic.  That joy seems to be the beginning of compassion.  This kind of cheerfulness has a lot of guts.”

The path is actually quite practical.  Many teachers have stated that if you master even one of the precepts, you’ve mastered them all.  It doesn’t mean we don’t get angry or gossip ever again.  Sensei Bays suggests that when you’ve broken them, you can do something about it- apologize, and start over again.  We can also enlist the aid of others- our friends, sangha or teacher.  For example, “I’m really trying to do this as part of my spiritual practice and I really need help from all quarters so could you help me to not gossip?”  If that approach doesn’t work, Bays says to be quiet or say the opposite- say something nice about the person.

At the same time, scholar and Buddhist teacher, Sara Harding said joy is hard to come by.  We think somehow there is some sort of final solution to end suffering.  Shantideva gives us clear instructions however on how to not only come to a greater understanding on an intellectual level, but affirms that practical actions will support virtuous progress along the path, thus freeing us to experience a flash of lightening rather than becoming a flash in the pan.

Does a dog have Buddha Nature? - photo by Mae Lee Sun

By Mae Lee Sun

“When Chogyam Trungpa taught in the West, he made a distinction between Buddhism and Buddhadarma.  Preconceptions behind calling things Buddhism is about studying a philosophical system as a religion with basic principles to be learned and categorized in an understandable and intelligent way.  Trungpa emphasized this was not a complete understanding of what the Buddha taught which was ‘Buddhadarma’- awake to the truth of things as they are…

“Bodhicitta is the essence of the Dharma, everything that arises is Bodhicitta and comes from our ’soft spot’ like anger- as a wound where we are helpless.  It’s what the human condition is and we are vulnerable to this experience.  The discipline is to be able to recognize this soft spot under the anger and we can feel our own suffering so we can see others suffering more clearly.”  -  Frank Berliner, Religious Studies Faculty, Naropa University

“The desire for enlightenment is the mind which performs the function of seeking that unsurpassed state for the sake of releasing all sentient beings from suffering.  This desire for the welfare of others is in essence a form of great compassion.” – Venerable Lobsang Gyatso, excerpt, Bodhicitta: Cultivating the Compassionate Mind of Enlightenment

Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand- Photo by Mae Lee Sun

From the above statements, we can surmise that the word of the Buddha is promoting the notion of a spirituality that directs one toward service to all forms of life.  Embracing such an approach is obviously not a path that one would potentially embark on without good intention and seeing the value of enduring and also transforming one’s own pain and suffering in the process of bearing witness to other beings.   What it does not imply is that although no one can clearly define what it means to live the true model of the Buddha, the means to achieve this awareness of awakened heart lies beyond the societal and spiritual identification of being ‘Buddhist.’

There are many historical and contemporary spiritual warriors from non-Buddhist traditions who have been able to transcend any obscuring spiritual distinctions to access the word of the Buddha in ways that embody the Bodhisattva ideal: St Francis, Chief Joseph, Ghandi, Albert Schweitzer, Thomas Merton, Victor Frankel, Maya Angelou, Dorothy Day, Nelson Mandela, and countless others.  In the past, personal dialogue with other Buddhists around this universal outlook has not always been met with the openness and equanimity I expected my practitioner friends to embody.  Perhaps by now however, their views have changed.

The subject initially arose, and came to be debated, out of a passage written by Chogyam Trungpa in his book, Training the Mind:

“Theistic traditions tend to build up an individual substance of some kind, so that you can then step out and do your own version of so-called bodhisattvic actions.  But in the nontheistic Buddhist tradition, we talk in terms of having no being, no characteristics of egohood, and therefore being able to perform a much broader version of bodhisattva activity altogether.”

This is not to say that Trungpa necessarily meant this literally.  It raises an interesting question for me however, as a practitioner and person who has worked on behalf of animal welfare, the environment, for social justice and as a spiritual caregiver in the emergency room of a Level I trauma hospital. Most of these roles required an interfaith perspective as we who choose these vocations are offering our presence to people with diverse spiritual backgrounds.

It seems essential to have an understanding of and reflect on the diversity of spirituality in this context both to avoid the trap of spiritual materialism and also to ensure alternative sacred ways of knowing are honored.  Otherwise, we alienate people, especially those confronting the experience of death and dying (a major focus of work in Engaged Buddhism).

There are certainly many non-Buddhist Bodhisattvas free of ego, who have been spoken of as such by Buddhist teachers, who manifest a broad spectrum of Bodhisattva activity and who need not be discounted.  There are also many Buddhists who operate out of what Sulak Sivaraksa referred to as the “goody goody” place of ego to prove what great Buddhists they are, and do more harm as a result.  Perhaps this exploration will be too short to comprehensively explain such an understanding of Dharma, Bodhicitta and so many extraordinary traditions and lives.

At the core, what makes such an exploration challenging is the inexpressible nature of experience that comes through deep connection to spirit, and the limitation of language and conditioned mind to accurately convey that which motivates and opens the heart.

In my observation and experience, the manifestation of what I understand as Bodhicitta does take place across spiritual and religious traditions.  What is key to understanding this may best be approached by dropping the the identification as ‘Buddhist’ and looking at what His Holiness the Dalai Lama refers to as “the authentication of all religion- the realization of a ‘good heart’, a human being’s innate qualities of compassion and tolerance.”  In other words, there is no single way to the TRUTH.  There are universal values and beliefs uniquely  embodied in each tradition and the differences do not have to mean divisions or subordination.

It is more pragmatic to discuss the notion of a good heart and Bodhicitta through comparing Buddhist and non-Buddhist spiritual models of social action who engaged the world along the lines of ‘interbeing’ rather than to challenge the merits of the respective traditions themselves.  I’d like to being with reflection on two Native American warriors of peace- Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce and Eagle Cruz of the Lakota.

Eagle Cruz, a Sundancer and Pipe Holder for the Lakota, was a teacher of Native American Studies at Naropa University.  He is no longer there.  It’s been years since he left or was asked to resign. I’m not quite sure what the legal details were.   Eagle was accused of engaging in cultural genocide by a non-native student (who was married to a Native American) and some Lakota people for introducing native teachings to the non-native community at Naropa.  An important aspect of this condemnation of Eagle teaching was that some felt native culture was being appropriated by whites, resulting in the assimilation and ultimate demise of it.  The real time issues of poverty, broken treaty agreements, etc., were said to be unconsidered and even swept under the rug.  Vine Deloria Jr., a Native American professor at the University of Colorado in Boulder, called this oversight ’skimming’- the act of whites taking only the cream of Native culture and discarding the rest of Native life.  It became a very politically and legally sensitive situation for myriad reasons.

One of the main reasons is that some tribal elders in this particular case, felt that any impartation of this knowledge was a violation of sacred precepts.  Other tribal elders, according to Eagle, gave Eagle permission to present the curriculum he taught at Naropa while concurrently insisting he not reveal other teachings.  In dealing with this, he said to me at the time that ‘everything begins within- creating discrimination, introspection and finding a place where we’re willing to consider other possibilities.

According to Eagle, being a ’spiritual’ being doesn’t exist conceptually in native culture.  There are no words to define or explain it as something separate from daily life.  To look at someone as ’spiritual’ for engaging in prayer but not for being on the front lines of activism is to not properly value everyone’s contribution.

Eagle stated that it was easy to go through life and be ’spiritual’ by staying in ceremony all day, and that the challenge for him as an activist was coming to terms with what we refer to in Buddhism as ‘walking the razor’s edge.’  He found himself continually having to decide whether or not to continue on with the commitments he’s made and seeing the obstacles as food to help him along the Way.  In the 1800s, Chief Joseph did this as well, continually and non-violently, even after the U.S. government banned him from the land of his ancestors.  With treaty after broken treaty with the U.S., the result was near genocide of the Nez Perce Nation.  Sulak Sivaraksa’s response to this statement, referring to Eagle, was that a Bodhisattva would confront anything and any criticism to overcome suffering in society.

“It is resting like a tiger, then when the time comes, you go out to get the prey, only non-violently.”  -  Sulak Sivaraksa

Faced with the dilemma of  having to move from the sacred land of his ancestors and the burial ground of his father or face war, Chief Joseph broke the promise he made to his father of never giving up the Wallowa Valley in order to save the Nez Perce from genocide.  What is interesting to note in this action is that native people’s relationship to land was central to both their identity and connection to ‘Great Spirit’.  To be separated from it was tantamount to the death of the their own soul because of the deep responsibility and identification they felt to it, the creatures, and the plants who inhabited it.  Yet Chief Joseph seemed to have felt a unique responsibility to both his people and whites to not allow the sacredness of place to be denigrated by  violence, even at the cost of losing it- and in spite of the extreme hardship his people would face in the process of moving to a reservation.

The sacred view which Chief Joseph held appears no different than that which Thich Nhat Hanh states in Interbeing: Fourteen Guidelines for Engaged Buddhism:

“To be in touch with the reality of the world means to be in touch with everything that is around us in the animal, vegetal and mineral realms.  If we want to be in touch, we have to get out of our shell and look clearly and deeply at the wonders of life..and also the suffering..once we get in touch with the source of understanding and compassion, all our actions will naturally protect and enhance life..without calm and peaceful mind, our actions will only create more trouble and destruction in the world.”

The historical account of Chief Joseph’s actions are really an expression of the notion of Interbeing and I would argue, is inclusive of all 14 precepts put forth by the Order of Interbeing.  Without going into great detail, the most obvious ones include finding whatever means possible to protect life and prevent war, being open to receive other’s viewpoints, living simply and sharing resources with those in need.  The Charter of the Order of Interbeing includes four principles as the foundation of the Order which I believe Chief Joseph embodied:

1. Non-attachment from views- to be free from dogma, prejudices and habits- Chief Joseph was familiar with and practiced both Christian and Native spirituality.
2. Direct experimentation- direct experience of reality, not speculative philosophy as an instrument through which we experiment with truth- Chief Joseph lived as he believed and worked with Anglos according to each situation and adjusted his view where necessary.
3. Appropriateness- a teaching, in order to bring about understanding and compassion,  must reflect the needs of people and the realities of society- Chief Joseph  gave up the land he promised to hold and was able to integrate that into native view.
4. Skillful means- images and methods created by intelligent teachers to guide people in their efforts to practice the Way in their own particular circumstances- Chief Joseph wanted to avoid genocide and to maintain peace and did this through flight over treacherous yet well known territory, to ensure that the Nez Perce people and anglos would survive.

Chief Joseph was able to penetrate the intent while anticipating the outcome of the white man’s words, yet continued in negotiations despite the hopelessness of the situation.  One might ask “Why pursue it then?”  I can surmise from my own practice and insight, that it is not the futility or apparent success of a situation or cause that motivates the spiritual warrior.  As one of my former Naropa teachers Dale Asriel said, “It is the dawn of Bodhicitta in us, the awakened heart of clear seeing, gentleness and willingness to allow enough room for everything (wisdom, compassion, emptiness), our soft spot of wanting to make sense of confusion.

Peace activist Robert Aitken Roshi at 91 years old- photo provided by the Diamond Sangha

It is a greater aspiration that calls to us in life.  The pain of this process- if it becomes a source of discovery rather than despair- is what enables us to feel connected to other beings and to embrace the world as we find it.  Who could dispute the fact that Chief Joseph was willing to do this, and from the ground of Bodhicitta?

One of my all time favorite Bodhisattavas has been St. Francis of Assisi.  As a Christian monk, he was able to touch upon the essence of Bodhicitta in ways that recognizably indicate the unity of Interbeing between the natural world, self and spirit:

“Once when Francis was offered a large fish which had just been caught in Lake Piediluco, he simply looked at it, called it “brother” and then put it back in the water near the boat. And it did not swim away until Francis had given it leave and a blessing.”                                                                                                          -Bonaventure IX, 8

St. Francis worked to unite and protect all elements of the creation of the spirit.  He was connected to the wisdom aspect of the Bible, where the earth was looked upon not merely as lifeless matter, but rather alive with sensitivity to feelings of pain and suffering.  So that he could alleviate the suffering, Francis, who came from a wealthy family like Siddhartha Gautama, subscribed to a life of poverty, simplicity and meditation in serving the Spirit.

As he roamed around the countryside and taught, he did so with regard to all of creation in mind, including the lowly worm.  I imagine him to be more of a Thich Nhat Hanh kinda guy and Bodhisattva, possessing a gentleness of presence and telling stories filled with references about nature.  Many people however, during his time, thought of him as ‘God’s fool’ for his extraordinary enthusiasm in communing with the natural world of plants and animals.  There is the noteworthy Canticle of Brother Sun, Sister Moon, where Francis speaks to the notion of Interbeing:

“All praise be yours, my Lord, through all that you have made, And first my Lord Brother Sun who brings the day: and light you give to us through him.  How beautiful he is, how radiant in all his splendor.  Of you, most high, he bears the likeness.  And praise be yours, my Lord, through Sister Moon and stars.  In the heavens you have made them bright, precious and fair.  And praise be yours my Lord, through Sister Earth, Our Mother, who feeds us in her sovereignty and produces fruits and colored flowers and herbs.”

His Holiness the Dalai Lama asserts that this type of thought in Christianity relates to recognition of Buddha-nature in everything.  If St. Francis was able to notice this in simple forms of creation, one could surmise that he was also able to dissolve the barrier between self and other, and see the quality of Interbeing from his awakened heart, like so many other Bodhisattvas were able to do.

Lama Thubten Zopa Rinpoche wrote that:

“all creatures seek happiness; they are seeking it day and night…those birds living in bushes and also the butterflies…they are all the same- desiring happiness, not desiring suffering.”

Clearly, the aforementioned Bodhisattvas understood this and lived in ways to benefit the beings experiencing this.  Perhaps they had spiritual practices that we may not agree with or understand.  However, they clearly participated in life from a place of awakened heart.  The path that creates the opening is any one’s guess.  Nelson Mandela’s path ran the gamut- from embracing non-violent protest against apartheid to advocating guerrilla warfare, spending 27 years in prison as a result, then receiving the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993, becoming president of South Africa while continuously being surrounded by controversy yet is held in high esteem around the world.

Dr. Reginald Ray, a former teacher of mine at Naropa and spiritual director of Dharma Ocean Foundation in Crestone, Colorado, said to me on our first meeting at Naropa that sometimes Bodhisattva’s are born in hell realms so that they can better help those beings that are there.  At the time, I certainly didn’t have the clarity or compassion with which to accept his insight.  What I do have is a strong meditation practice and incredible teachers both Buddhist and non-Buddhist who constantly challenge the notion of “I”, “Me” and “Mine”.  With that, I’ve discovered that there is no ground, no security which I can grasp onto.   Every moment is ever more precious, raw and we all face them in very different ways.  On the Bodhisattva path, we are reduced to nothing.  And from there, we become very real, very human, without labels and often open, broken hearts.

Neon Buddha- photo by Mae Lee Sun

The Sun Spot

On October 27, 2009 I interviewed my former creative nonfiction writing teacher, Lee Gutkind, Founder and editor of Creative Nonfiction Magazine, on his research with robots.

Lee, who is now at ASU, has a very long title behind his name: the Distinguished Writer in Residence, Consortium for Science, Policy & Outcomes Professor, Hugh Downs School of Human Communication, Arizona State University.

Gutkind’s book “Almost Human: Making Robots Think”, has just been released in paperback.  Enamored with all things robot, I asked him to comment on a recent New York Times visual article on the robot recession currently underway in Japan.  His initial response was ” It goes to show the way in which interest in robots goes far beyond technology and into public understanding, consumption and acceptance that the ‘idea’ of AI (artificial intelligence) is no longer the stuff of science fiction.”  I agreed.

LG: The robot recession in Japan is a reflection of the economic recession in Japan and isn’t impacting us in a big way since robots are more a part of life in Japan.  In the U.S., robots are seen as of  part of pop culture and they’re involved in industry and medicine but we’re not used to interacting with them daily like the Japanese.

MLS: Why do you think that’s the case since we’re so technology dependent it seems in the West?

LG: The Japanese look at robots as answers to problems in life- like who will take care of the elderly.  In the U.S. we don’t want to think about a robot taking care of us. Although if you look at it, there is a decrease in funding in certain areas of research that robot technology is getting, like with aerospace.

MLS: Do you mean with space travel and lunar landings, etc?

LG: Yes, if you look at what has been going on with NASA in the past four or five years, the idea that was taking hold was that we didn’t need manned space travel because robots could do the job because the focus was on places where man couldn’t travel like Mars.  Mars was more important with the Clinton and Bush administration but now we’re focusing on going to the moon again and not Mars so robots are becoming less significant because men have been and can be on the moon and walk around.  Do you remember the two robots are on Mars?

MLS: You mean Spirit and Opportunity?

LG: Yes..they were supposed to be there for 3 months and now they’ve been there for three years.  We couldn’t do that with humans.  In that sense, we don’t know where space exploration will go let alone robots…Although the only place robots are still finding job security is in military applications.

MLS: That seems clear with predator drones and computer guided technology. It reminds me of the movie Transformers.

LG: Robots can go around the corner and look for the enemy…and it’s really not far from Sci Fi when robots control the weapons.  In 25 years or less, robots will be fighting the wars…until robots turn against their controllers.  That’s something that is difficult to balance in whole world of science.

MLS: If they take over?

LG:  Well, sometimes research gallops ahead of scientists ability to understand and control it.  We don’t want to stop research however and turn into a police state although I don’t know of any conferences that have taken place where these issues are being discussed.

MLS: What do you make of smart homes, smart cars and phones that do just about everything for you.  I keep thinking of the old cartoon show, the Jetsons.  Would you consider those things robots, except for Rosie who was a robot?

LG: People in the robotics world say smart cars and phones are robots.  What about robo calls? Artificial voices sometimes, not all the time, allow for no human connection.  Could they become dangerous? I don’t know.  What about the robot nurses that skulk around a patients room giving them medicine or a surgeon doing a procedure from one city on a patient in another by means of robotics?  What if there is a glitch in the system?

ML: Doesn’t that speak to the difference between a robot and a machine?

LG: Robotics people make a distinction between robots and machines.  Machines don’t think.  Robotics people also have trouble establishing a distance between the robots they create and themselves because they get attached. They give their robot creations a name and sexual orientation and they treat them like they treat a pet.

MLS: It reminds me of a Star Trek Next Generation episode with Data called The Measure of A Man.  They actually have to take the issue to council to determine if Data can think and feel independently and beyond being a programmed machine or creation.

LG: Scientists do become so involved in what they do that the moral and ethical issues aren’t considered until afterward.  There aren’t science policy scholars who devote time to thinking about these issues.

MLS: Any last words?

LG:  I still have an interest in following robots although I’m currently working on a book on personalized medicine.  That should be of great interest to Arizona.

Lee Gutkind conducted most of his research on robots at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, PA, the NASA research center in California and in the Atacama desert in Chile- the place on planet earth said to be most like Mars.

For more information on Lee Gutkind’s work go to www.leegutkind.com or www.therobotbook.com